"Now let the fun begin... " writes Jennifer Lapidus, whose dream shipment just arrived in Asheville: a 48-inch stone mill.
Lapidus loves artisan bread — and because of her passion, she built a sizable group of devotees who bought her Natural Bridge bread from area health food stores. Her fascination began years ago, and led her to apprentice under Alan Scott in Marin County, Calif., she says, “milling our grain to flour and baking our old world, Flemish naturally-leavened breads in a wood-fired brick oven that Alan designed and built himself.”
Scott eventually moved back to his ancestral homeland of Tasmania, Australia, and began the process of setting up a milling operation with a 48” diameter stone-burr Osttiroller gristmill with sifters — but sadly, Scott died of congestive heart failure before his milling operation was fully launched.
“I got a call from Lila, Alan’s daughter, asking if our project was interested in Alan’s mill," explains Lapidus.
Now, the mill is here, an ebullient Lapidus emailed her friends today. "Thanks to Dr. David Marshall of the USDA, Chris Reberg-Horton of NCSU as well as the amazing folks at accounting at NCSU — who put up with me while we navigated the zillions of hoops one must jump through for overseas shipments — [plus] the Golden Leaf Foundation, Graeme Gore in Tasmania, Ed Pitzer who is the head of NC's Research Stations who arranged for trucking from the customs warehouse in Charlotte to A'ville, and of course, Lila Scott (Alan's daughter) — oh, and Joe, for his splendid maneuvering of the forklift, the mill is finally here in Asheville! Whew."
“A mill devoted to NC grains made sense to everyone,” Lapidus says. “The estate of Alan Scott, is providing our project with the use of his 48” diameter stone-burr Osttiroller gristmill with sifters for one year as a test mill. It was Alan’s work that inspired me to do the work of linking the farmer, miller, and baker in North Carolina. It seems the appropriate measure, a bittersweet story, for Alan’s mill to be used to inspire growers to plant wheat and bakers to buy local grain in North Carolina."
This trial use of a gristmill with sifters will enable the bakers to work with N.C. wheat on a production level, figuring out product, level of extraction, and grains that can be milled. The mill will be located in western NC, amid its high concentration of artisan bakeries and amongst the pilot group of seven bakeries.
Stay tuned for Lapidus' upcoming miling adventures.
— photos by Jennifer Lapidus.
In addition to milling the wheat for better bread, Lapidus is working with others to help N.C. farmers grow "hard wheat," which is a crucial ingredient of old-world bread. For more about this project, see the comment and links at http://www.mountainx.com/forums/viewthread/680/
Lapidus loves artisan bread — and because of her passion, she built a sizable group of devotees who bought her Natural Bridge bread from area health food stores. Her fascination began years ago, and led her to apprentice under Alan Scott in Marin County, Calif., she says, “milling our grain to flour and baking our old world, Flemish naturally-leavened breads in a wood-fired brick oven that Alan designed and built himself.”
Scott eventually moved back to his ancestral homeland of Tasmania, Australia, and began the process of setting up a milling operation with a 48” diameter stone-burr Osttiroller gristmill with sifters — but sadly, Scott died of congestive heart failure before his milling operation was fully launched.
“I got a call from Lila, Alan’s daughter, asking if our project was interested in Alan’s mill," explains Lapidus.
Now, the mill is here, an ebullient Lapidus emailed her friends today. "Thanks to Dr. David Marshall of the USDA, Chris Reberg-Horton of NCSU as well as the amazing folks at accounting at NCSU — who put up with me while we navigated the zillions of hoops one must jump through for overseas shipments — [plus] the Golden Leaf Foundation, Graeme Gore in Tasmania, Ed Pitzer who is the head of NC's Research Stations who arranged for trucking from the customs warehouse in Charlotte to A'ville, and of course, Lila Scott (Alan's daughter) — oh, and Joe, for his splendid maneuvering of the forklift, the mill is finally here in Asheville! Whew."
“A mill devoted to NC grains made sense to everyone,” Lapidus says. “The estate of Alan Scott, is providing our project with the use of his 48” diameter stone-burr Osttiroller gristmill with sifters for one year as a test mill. It was Alan’s work that inspired me to do the work of linking the farmer, miller, and baker in North Carolina. It seems the appropriate measure, a bittersweet story, for Alan’s mill to be used to inspire growers to plant wheat and bakers to buy local grain in North Carolina."
This trial use of a gristmill with sifters will enable the bakers to work with N.C. wheat on a production level, figuring out product, level of extraction, and grains that can be milled. The mill will be located in western NC, amid its high concentration of artisan bakeries and amongst the pilot group of seven bakeries.
Stay tuned for Lapidus' upcoming miling adventures.
— photos by Jennifer Lapidus.
In addition to milling the wheat for better bread, Lapidus is working with others to help N.C. farmers grow "hard wheat," which is a crucial ingredient of old-world bread. For more about this project, see the comment and links at http://www.mountainx.com/forums/viewthread/680/
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I am loving this.
By chops
01/21/2010
TWO THUMBS UP!!
By D. Dial
01/21/2010
Can someone please fix the spelling error in this headline? It's driving me batty. Thanks.
By Edgy Mama
01/21/2010
Thank you. I feel much better. Now I can get excited about the lovely flour mill.
By Edgy Mama
01/21/2010
Yay! more toys for rich people!
By shadmarsh
01/22/2010
Shadmarsh Yay! more toys for rich people!
Not buying an old world style, grist mill stone is a rich people's toy.
By D. Dial
01/24/2010
I see shads point. but i also think this is way cool, like many other toys for rich people.
i mean, dial, it's not like poor people buy those 6 dollar loaves of bread.
By Piffy!
01/24/2010
Yeah, $6.00 a loaf is steep. But a $6.00 bag of flour will make lots of loaves. jmho
By D. Dial
01/24/2010
I suspect a six dollar bag of flour from this mill might not be enough for more than a loaf or two. That is, when it's actually even able to produce flour from local wheat, which may be years, maybe decades.
not that i think there is anything wrong with that. food should cost something. Inexpensive food is government-subsidized stupidness, and we need to strengthen our region's ability to produce ALL of it's own food. Higher priced flour means farmers can afford to be farmers instead of selling their land to tiger woods.
By Piffy!
01/24/2010
You may be right about that.
Still, I've been buying a locally ground cornmeal for a couple of years. It's far superior to Quacker or other national brands, in taste and texture.
I'm all for small independent farmers making a good living. My understanding from a friend in Madison County is a small patch of wheat yields a good cash crop.
By D. Dial
01/24/2010
All those filthy rich local farmers and artisan bakers are clearly looking to take over the planet and enslave the masses with their dastardly toys, because that's how they roll. Long live Twinkies! Death to the evil baker barons and their bid for world domination!
By entopticon
01/25/2010
way to completely misinterpret the point, entop.
no one has said anything even close to that. try again.
By Piffy!
01/25/2010
because pointing out that this is indeed a toy for the rich is totally attacking farmers and claiming they have a plot for world domination.
clearly.
i cant believe you saw through my facade so easily.
/scurries back to his lair at Monsanto headquarters.
By Piffy!
01/25/2010
More toys for rich people? I understood the point just fine. I just think it was imbecilic.
By entopticon
01/25/2010
Let me put it another way... If you seriously think that "Yay! more toys for rich people!" is a reasonable response to the above article, it is indeed you that has completely misinterpreted the point. Exactly who are these imaginary rich local farmers and artisan bakers that it is a toy for? Exactly how is it "indeed a toy for the rich"? I disagree with you. Get over yourself.
By entopticon
01/25/2010
I was so wrong to make a joke at the expense of the poor farmers/ artisan whatchamacallits. Please forgive me for offending thine sensibilities, and attempting to introduce humor into a subject that is obviously so vital and important to not only you dear (humorless) sir, but to the community as a whole.
By shadmarsh
01/25/2010
I'm the humorless one? You are the one that made a lame, self-righteous joke at the expense of people doing genuinely admirable things that deserve to be applauded, not ridiculed. My response was actually pretty funny, at least compared to your attempt at humor. For someone who can dish it out with abandon, you sure do have trouble taking it. And you call me humorless? You may not like the humor in my post because it was at your expense, but to call it humorless is just plain wrong.
"Long live Twinkies! Death to the evil baker barons and their bid for world domination!" was funny. It's funny because your contention that the mill is a toy for rich people is completely asinine.
Your "Yay! more toys for rich people!" snip wasn't funny, it was just impishly sanctimonious and wrong.
By entopticon
01/25/2010
ok.I was wrong. You should try it sometime. also maybe try this: http://www.rage-anon.org/
By shadmarsh
01/25/2010
I'm certainly not beyond rage. The Supreme Court's latest debacle comes to mind, but in this case I don't think it really applies. I just responded sarcastically to a misguided comment that unfairly disparaged good people who are doing something genuinely admirable. Nothing deeper there, so I think I'll take a pass on the rage-aholics meetings for now.
By entopticon
01/25/2010
It was a suggestion directed at your body of work.
By shadmarsh
01/25/2010
I'll take that under advisement. And since we seem to now be making suggestions about other people's body of work, or XPress posts as the case may be, I suggest that you consider trying not to constantly shoot from the hip, sanctimoniously putting others down with ill-conceived snarky banter in order to feed your ego. It doesn't serve you well, and it doesn't really add much of value to the dialogue either.
By entopticon
01/25/2010
So, it didnt take a great deal of money to get this mill here? And people with large amounts of money are no longer considered 'rich'?
By Piffy!
01/25/2010
it doesn’t really add much of value to the dialogue either.
i guess it's all about the eye of the beholder, then, because how i interpreted mr marsh's statements was that it might push us all to analyze the level of privilege those of us have who are able to enjoy these sorts of things.
I mean i love eating 'artisan bread', but i do sometimes notice how there are not a lot of poor people at greenlife.
By Piffy!
01/25/2010
Where does one go to get a mill stone made? How much does one cost If you could find someone to carve one for you? Did it cost less to have it shipped from New Zealand (probably on a slow boat), since it was already made?
P.kippy "I mean I love eating ‘artisan bread’, but i do sometimes notice how there are not a lot of poor people at greenlife."
I do notice a lot of poor looking folks there.Maybe they're faking it???
Bulk items make G.L. a reasonable priced place, though. They have some of the best desserts in town. Their double shot of espresso is one of the best prices too. ($1.49)
Still a chuck roast is almost a mortgage payment. I just eat less meat and spend more.
I'm not promoting GL...they happen to be in my neighborhood, and for the most part, I like the place.
By D. Dial
01/25/2010
pff, I think we are actually on the same page about the importance of making healthy sustainable foods available to to people with little money. I have worked a bit with ASAP and slow foods Asheville for exactly that purpose, because they consider it a priority as well. You know a lot more about food issues than the average person, so you know that the true cost of the cheap supermaket alternatives from massively subsidized monocrops is actually far higher than appearances.
Again, the above project is about linking the farmers, millers, and bakers in this region, and no, I don't think they are rich people toying around. The vast majority of those people are struggling to make a living. I don't think they will be squirreling away the profits to spend on private jets and limousines. I also know some people who are well below the poverty line, who appreciate a good loaf of bread.
One of the greatest frauds ever perpetrated by the rich was to find ways to effectively pit the poor against the middle and upper-middle class. It started with the rise of the bourgeoisie in Europe. The economic disparities of the feudal system were still extreme at that time, so small groups of the middle class posed no real threat, but for the first time, the ruling class (the truly rich) realized that collectively, the resources of the rising middle class could actually pose a realistic threat to their power. So what they did is hire countless poets, artists, and intellectuals, some famous to this day, to create a propaganda war, pitting the poor against the middle class, and stigmatizing cooperation and sharing.
It was an extremely successful propaganda campaign. Perhaps the most successful ever. It's the reason that to this day, you will see poor people celebrating someone dripping in jewels, yachts, and limousines, yet disparaging another person with vastly less money for buying a well made loaf of bread or a fair trade latte. A central feature was to keep the middle class afraid of the poor while focusing the poor's rage onto the middle class, to misdirect it away from the ruling class. It has been so embedded into Western civilization that the vast majority of people take the artificial framework that keeps the ruling class in power for granted, and they participate in furthering it unwittingly by playing right into the ruse by keeping the poor pitted against the middle class and vice versa.
To this day, tribal cultures are often particularly perplexed by the Western stigmatization of interdependence that was at the core of the propaganda campaign. Capitalist forces pushed the meme that cooperation and codependence are bad even further, because it makes for a good consumer if everyone has to buy all of their own new stuff rather than sharing.
The above mill project needs to be applauded, not ridiculed. It will help people who are struggling to make a living, and it will help create a more sustainable environment. The artisan bakers that I know in the area are really good, socially conscious people that are actively involved in food equality. They aren't rich elitists, and they don't deserve that unfair criticism.
By entopticon
01/25/2010
I suggest that you consider trying not to constantly shoot from the hip, sanctimoniously putting others down with ill-conceived snarky banter in order to feed your ego. It doesn’t serve you well, and it doesn’t really add much of value to the dialogue either.
tut tut.
I don't post here to feed my ego. I only post here to make piffy laugh.
By shadmarsh
01/25/2010
Which you nearly always succeed at.
By Piffy!
01/26/2010
Although entop does a make a good point. you really should have worded that "Yeah, more toys for the upwardly affluent".
After all, everyone knows the term "Rich" only means the top one percent and should never be used as short hand for people with a large amount of wealth in comparison to others.
/clearly.
By Piffy!
01/26/2010
Oh, and what's wrong with being an elitist?
By Piffy!
01/26/2010
Although entop does a make a good point.
Wish I could say the same about your comments in this thread, but I honestly can't. “Yeah, more toys for the upwardly affluent†is every bit as ignorantly idiotic in the context of the above article as "Yay! more toys for rich people!" but I see that explaining that to you is a lost cause. My point was that the demonization of the middle class as "rich" is ironically part of a very old propaganda campaign by those who actually are rich for real, and when you do their bidding for them, you only add to the problem. Oh well. Whatever.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
Which you nearly always succeed at.
Please, get a room already.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
I cannot understand how anyone would denigrate the return of an ancient craft like milling. But then I've been a practitioner of the long lost art of millinery. So reviving ancient artisan practices is in my blood.
That said, a Google search leads to only one producer of grist mill stones in the US. They're pricey.
http://www.mainemillstones.com/prices.html
By D. Dial
01/26/2010
What I learned from this thread: Don't make fun of stuff that entop feels is vital to the community. Entop knows what is and what is not funny (glad I didn't weave in any of my Holocaust jokes in this thread). Entop is smarter than you. Piffy is sexy.
By shadmarsh
01/26/2010
Please, get a room already.
I've tried, but he always leaves me hanging.
By Piffy!
01/26/2010
shad, stop being a tool for the 'rich for real' with your smug, snarky comments and og back to your diet of twinkies and burger king.
By Piffy!
01/26/2010
I prefer Wendy's they make their burgers on artisan breads.
By shadmarsh
01/26/2010
No, no, just keep ranting about how a stone mill for small farmers and a few artisan bakers is nothing but a toy for the rich, because nobody, and I mean nobody, is richer than local farmers and small artisan bakeries. Everyone knows that they make global bankers and robber barons look like small potatoes by comparison. Their plan to use their enormous wealth to enslave mankind is just so obvious. And of course, practically anyone who would buy a loaf of locally made bread is rich too, so they must be in on it as well. Rich bastards.
Thanks for opening my eyes to this travesty of justice. Rich local farmers and small bakeries with their malicious, self-gratifying toys like stone grain mills. Monsters I tell you. Monsters. Let's ridicule them every chance we get, because nobody deserves it more than them.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
ranting is more your thing. I'm more of prick with a heart of gold.
By shadmarsh
01/26/2010
i think you read far too much in his one-sentence comment, entop.
By Piffy!
01/26/2010
Their plan to use their enormous wealth to enslave mankind is just so obvious.
No, really, you have read far more than he ever wrote. Take your beef up with someone who has actually said anything even closely resembling that.
also, while i am not rich by some standards, i am hardly poor, either. And i like expensive things like local, hand-crafted bread. And thats okay. Just as pointing it out is okay.
By Piffy!
01/26/2010
I’m more of prick with a heart of gold.
You better not let all of those toy crazy rich bakers and small farmers find that out, because they will have their child laborers cut it right out of you then melt it down and invest it in their secret Swiss bank accounts.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
No, really, you have read far more than he ever wrote. Take your beef up with someone who has actually said anything even closely resembling that.
Oh wait, are you saying that he didn't literally say that local bakers and small farmers want to use their enormous wealth to enslave mankind? Well, why didn't you just say so? That changes everything. I wasn't just poking fun at him by pointing out the idiocy of ridiculing small bakeries and local farmers for such an inappropriate reason. I thought he literally meant that they were going to make billions off of it and use that money to take over the world. But now that you have set me straight, I will save that criticism for all the people who really do believe that small bakers and local farmers are rich people who plan to enslave mankind with the profits from the stone mill. Phew. Thank goodness I had you around to clarify that.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
So, it didn't cost a lot of money to ship this stone mill from the other side of the world? And that wouldn't be indeed considered a wonderful extravagance by some who live on very very little?
Instead of being ashamed of our community's collective wealth, why not just admit it and do something good with it, like this is doing?
For all you know, shad was being genuine in his excitement for this awesome toy for the middle upper middle class upwardly affluent but not totally rich but still richer than most.
By Piffy!
01/26/2010
In truth I was making fun of the people who would read this article and be totally jazzed about the idea of being able to tell their friends how hip and enlightened Asheville is while having dinner at some hip restaurant while they are waited on by some wage slave with and MFA. But I guess in the future I should be more pointed and direct with my commentary so as not to be misconstrued as attacking the hard working middle class and their expensive rocks.
By shadmarsh
01/26/2010
Sorry, pff, but I'm just not buying your argument, and your convoluted rationalizations are getting more and more ridiculous. It was an obnoxious, sanctimonious, and unfair comment, so I poked fun at it. Apparently I missed the memo that says it is perfectly fine to make mean-spirited, snarky comments at the expense of good people doing something genuinely commendable, but it is not okay to do the same in kind to the person making the disparaging remarks. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
For all you know, shad was being genuine in his excitement...
I hope you don't really believe your own nonsense.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
i think entop would prefer the term "proletariat"
By Piffy!
01/26/2010
you missed the memo? Oh, well that explains a lot.
did you check your spam box? Sometimes my forwards get sent there.
By Piffy!
01/26/2010
Thank you all for an incredibly funny snark attack.
Really!
By D. Dial
01/26/2010
In truth I was making fun of the people who would read this article and be totally jazzed about the idea of being able to tell their friends how hip and enlightened Asheville is while having dinner at some hip restaurant while they are waited on by some wage slave with and MFA.
No doubt, people who eat at restaurants are total bastards. How dare they talk about it being cool that small bakeries and local farmers are excited about the stone mill? Anyone who eats at a restaurant that has waiters surely deserves limitless scorn, because all of the restaurants in town pay slave wages after all. Elitist food-eating hipsters.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
my point exactly-- hyperbole aside.
By shadmarsh
01/26/2010
i think entop would prefer the term “proletariatâ€
No, I just think that criticizing small bakeries and local farmers, as well as anyone eats out occasionally, as "rich" is very misguided.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
really? Well why didn't you just say so?
By shadmarsh
01/26/2010
wait, you mean eating out at a hip restaurant that relies on low-wage jobs and more than likely is serving a large portion of their food from Cysco (even while they pay lip-service to using a modicum of'local' produce) isn't something the working class can readily enjoy?
You mean to say the people who dont have disposable income tend to eat at home, or at fast food establishments, and not at hip downtown restaurants with one-syllable names?
I cant stand how you insist upon showing us how rich and privileged we all are shad. We are really trying to play up this common working man lowly farmer thing, even if we have money in the bank and brand new shoes.
I will now rip up my 6 dollar loaf of bread in anger.
By Piffy!
01/26/2010
No, I just think that criticizing small bakeries and local farmers, as well as anyone eats out occasionally, as “rich†is very misguided.
Small bakeries that can afford to have equipment shipped from around the world?
And i hate to break it to you, but if you can afford to eat out more than once or twice a year, you are doing pretty darn good, economically speaking.
By Piffy!
01/26/2010
It's actually pretty funny pff... You keep accusing me of reading way too deep into Shad's quip, but you are the one that keeps offering up a host of convoluted rationalizations that aren't actually to be found in his remarks. The above wasn't an article about how cruel it is for people to eat at restaurants blah-blah-blah. It was about a stone mill that is bringing small bakeries and local farmers together to produce more sustainable milled grains, and that is why no matter how you slice it, Shad's sanctimonious quip was just kind of lame, and deserved to be made fun of.
Again, you guys can dish it out with abandon, but you sure can't take even the slightest hint of your own medicine.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
And i hate to break it to you, but if you can afford to eat out more than once or twice a year, you are doing pretty darn good, economically speaking.
Yes, that's true. Golly, you are so darned insightful. Thanks for your brilliant insight into poverty. Living in a poor section of Philadelphia and studying the causes of poverty wasn't nearly as informative as you are. You have won me over. People who eat out occasionally deserve scorn, and people who poke fun at Shad deserve even more scorn. You are just so right, as always.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
I like how you call me sanctimonious, then go on (at length) describing just why and how my little misanthropic missive "deserves" to be made fun of. I mean I know you don't know me, so you probably have no idea how little I care whether or not you (or anyone) finds my jokes funny/prescient/worthy. I mean they can't all be winners, but spare me--and us all really-- the pedantic posturing and knowitall-ness. I mean maybe you have no idea how you come off (or like me you don't care)...but seriously bro everyone here, left right center-- whatever Johnny Lemuria is-- thinks you come off as an ass. Having heard that you indeed are not so in "the real world" makes it all the more sad...or maybe you just enjoy the anonymity of the screen name and it gives you the opportunity to blow off a little (misdirected?) steam. Just a thought. I have a paypal account if you want to donate a few bucks for thepsychological advice.
By shadmarsh
01/26/2010
Shad, you are literally infamous in the city of Asheville as a pompous ass, so you will have to excuse me if I just can't take you seriously. The fact that you are actually accusing someone else, even me, of know-it-allness is truly hilarious. Yes, it is true that I could care less about what you think of me, because I do indeed have very, very, very little respect for your opinions.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
Are you hitting on me?
By shadmarsh
01/26/2010
Yeah, that's it, I must be hitting on you. Everybody here loves you after all; not just pfffft. You sure are a sharp one.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
You seem to be devoting an awful lot of energy to someone you have very little respect for (not to mention derailing this thread #justsaying
By shadmarsh
01/26/2010
You seem to be devoting an awful lot of energy to someone you have very little respect for (not to mention derailing this thread #justsaying
I would love to know how in the outlandish hypocrisy of your your bizarrely myopic perspective, you can actually rationalize that comment as applying any less to your own self than it does to me. Seriously, do you ever actually think before you type? Or is it just a drinking and posting thing?
By entopticon
01/26/2010
Is there anything entopticon doesn't know?
He(?) must be 80 or 90 years old... he has been everywhere and done everything... twice.
Documented it and wrote 3 studies about it also.
By Trey
01/26/2010
Living in a poor section of Philadelphia and studying the causes of poverty wasn’t nearly as informative as you are.
Oh, goodness, you studied poverty. I'll try to remember that while i wash your dishes for less than ten dollars an hour.
By Piffy!
01/26/2010
Entop, would you like to come over for tea (or coffee) sometime?
By shadmarsh
01/26/2010
Oh, goodness, you studied poverty. I’ll try to remember that while i wash your dishes for less than ten dollars an hour.
Yes, how incredibly horrible of me, to study the causes of poverty. I've been well below the poverty line, and I have been far better off than most people. I know what it is like to be made fun of for not being able to dress like the other kids in school, but I've never known the poverty of someone like my grandmother, who had to beg for spare change to try to feed her siblings in a poor part of Philadelphia, and hopefully I never will. Sorry you make less than $10 an hour as a dishwasher. Not sure why you seem to somehow think that is my fault though.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
ah, yes, the poor grandmother card. You win. I lose.
I still think this mill is awesome, toy for the rich or not.
By Piffy!
01/26/2010
Entop, would you like to come over for tea (or coffee) sometime?
I honestly do appreciate the offer, but I can't say that I am really that interested in armchair psychoanalysis of my anger or hearing about what a terribly mean person I am. Internet forums are a sharp-elbowed medium of communication, and mine are as pointy as any. I have no illusions that my comments are sometimes appreciated and often not. I try to be as honest as I can, even with myself. I often feel like Andy Kaufman in the wrestling ring, but I know that some people probably take it a lot more seriously than I do. At the end of the day, a heated debate on an internet forum definitely needs to be taken with a very large grain of salt.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
whatever...
By shadmarsh
01/26/2010
ah, yes, the poor grandmother card. You win. I lose.
I think you missed my point entirely. I clearly said that I have never been in her shoes (or my grandfather's for that matter). There was no competition in what I said, just a simple description of where I am coming from, since you chose to make a judgmental remark about the fact that among other things, I studied the roots of poverty.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
Yes, whatever.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
I often feel like Andy Kaufman in the wrestling ring, but I know that some people probably take it a lot more seriously than I do. At the end of the day, a heated debate on an internet forum definitely needs to be taken with a very large grain of salt.
too bad you don't offer others the same benefit. Or maybe it is just my pompous assity speaking?
By shadmarsh
01/26/2010
locally-produced fair-trade artisan salt?
By Piffy!
01/26/2010
This web page is way over the recommended daily allowance of sarcasm.
By brebro
01/26/2010
too bad you don’t offer others the same benefit.
I honestly think that I do. Away from this site, I've had very friendly conversations with the same people that I've been in the midst of heated debates with. I assume that you are just being snarky sometimes, but that doesn't mean that I won't be just as snarky when I think it was uncalled for, as with the case above. And if your tone gets personal and more mean-spirited, I am likely to respond in kind, but I still take it all with a very, very big grain of salt. Locally produced, fair-trade artisan salt.
By entopticon
01/26/2010
This web page is way over the recommended daily allowance of sarcasm.
Have you ever seen the affects on stress levels of overly sarcastic dialogue brebro?
If you had studied this issue, as I have, then you would not be so glib and dismissive of the intolerant tone of this thread. People occasionally bruise fingertips typing frantically and get headaches in their attempts to out-snark one another.
It is no laughing matter and in the future I hope you will consider your words before being so contemptuous of this very serious business.
By bobaloo
01/26/2010
Wow, what was I thinking? Gosh, you are right!
By brebro
01/26/2010
All I know is City Bakery's seeded french bread, is waayyyyyy better than a slice of Wonder bread.
If being elitist means you prefer bread that is more than air enclosed in some baked dough, then I'm elitist....well so be it.
By D. Dial
01/26/2010
I was totally serious about the tea invite. You can even beat me at chess.
By shadmarsh
01/26/2010
this poor thread.
By Piffy!
01/27/2010
i think a great series on the forums could be "Cups of Tea, with entopticon and shadmharsh"
By Piffy!
01/27/2010
after all we have been through together you can't even spell my name right? Don't you know who I am?! I am infamous in this town for being a pompous ass! how dare you besmirch my crapulence by uttering my name incorrectly you souse!
By shadmarsh
01/27/2010
Thanks for the offer Shad. I will have to give that some thought. Unfortunately, I am terrible at Chess, so I wouldn't be much entertainment there. I'm okay at Scrabble.
By entopticon
01/27/2010
the h is silent.
duh.
By Piffy!
01/27/2010
I like how you have all conveniently missed that this mill is from a foreign nation. Just one more example of America losing its sovereignty to foreign powers bent on making us into a New World Bakery.
By mat catastrophe
01/27/2010
Having started this thread with a respect for Jennifer Lapidus who is following her passion, and believing the effort will add to the art of bread-making, and because I value people bringing such things to the community, I find most of the above verbal skirmishing to be, well, mostly embarrassing and certainly long-winded.
By Jeff Fobes
01/31/2010
welcome to the internet.
By shadmarsh
01/31/2010
Well, some sites moderate heavily; Xpress hasn't done so, out of a desire to allow the discussion as much freedom as possible.
However, Xpress' goal is to promote thoughtful and respectful dialogue.
If we miss the goal consistently, my sense is Xpress may need to change its moderation policy.
By Jeff Fobes
02/01/2010
Yes, but then you would have to ban the Stompers, and we all know you wouldn't to do that, lest you wind up in some poorly edited video featuring the ramblings of Mr. Nesbitt.
Behind all the snark and adolescent chirping I actually think there is/was some "thoughtful dialogue." Respectful? meh, you may have a point there...however this is pretty tame compared to a lot of what gets posted here.
By shadmarsh
02/01/2010
You cold easily put more civility into the mix by adding a "report" or "flag" button. button.
By D. Dial
02/01/2010
I agree with Shad.
By entopticon
02/01/2010
I think there was a very in-depth conversation that occurred dealing with issues of class and privilege as it relates to our food choices in the greater WNC region. But i agree with Jeff, you guys ruined the internet.
By Piffy!
02/01/2010
artisan bread... huh... well, is it not just good baked bread?
some flour, some yeast/sour dough, some salt and some water?
just try it... 2pounds of flour (great is a mix between rye and white flour but any mix can be used... try out, play around and see, taste..smell it), 2 tea spoon dry yeast, (if available also sour dough) about 1 pound water (have to look, depends of what flour is used, you may not add all at once and see how much water it will need to make it to an non sticky dough) 1 1/2 tea spoon salt
mix all dry ingredients together, you may use a bread maker to knead the dough. add water, if to dry, add more water (lukewarm please) and let the breadmaker knead the dough for about 20 minutes. let it rest for 40 minutes, let it knead agin for about 15 minutes, take the dough out of the breadmaker, form a loaf, place on baking paper/perchament paper on a cockie baking pan. cover with clan towel and let raise again for about 40 minutes. than bake it with adding a small boul of water underneath the bread (water steam raises the bread nicely)
the active work is only about 20 minutes. the rest is made from the breadmaker and oven... even as a full time worker, that will work out to make easy... i bake every other day our bread at home.
for a bread you buy, you can make minimum 5 -7 bread loafs at home...
you want to have it more artisan?
or lets say, more individual homemade?
add:
sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, multi grains, even chopped baken, roasted onions, chopped cheese, choped halapinios... walnuts, hazelnuts, raisins, dry fruits... or what ever in the dough AFTER it has been raised the first time.
i would say, more artisan is not possible! and your family will love you even more... my son does...:-)
By sonia
02/07/2010