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PICNICS Sunset Serenades….a great gig opportunity for emerging Asheville musicians
 
Sep 20, 2008  11:20 AM
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The sunsets are more and more glorious these days during the 6pm-7:45 time slot where we host live music here at PICNICS.  I am looking for some up and coming players (or established veterans of the scene!) who would appreciate this opportunity to perform.

The gig pays the performer(s) a wonderful homecooked meal from our gourmet cafeteria style service line.  This is a value of $10 - $18 dollars, depending on what you choose.  Artists performing will be treated as “employees” for the evening, which means they also recevie 50% off beer and the amazing homemade desserts prepared from scratch here in our bakery.  In addition, performers may sell any merchandise they have available, and receive tips during the performance.

Please do not respond if the above terms are not adequate compensation for you.  I do not need any lectures from unknown musicians who demand guarantees for performing here.  Please do respond however if you are ambitious, and will bring out a few friends to enjoy your show, and would appreciate being listed in the Mountain Xpress, on our marquee on Merrimon, and on the flyers I will create and hang around the city prior to your performance.

Thank you in advance for your consideration! 

Jason Ross Martin
PICNICS

(Edited: 18 November 2008 10:52 AM by Steve Shanafelt)
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Reply #1 • Sep 22, 2008  10:38 AM
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Thanks for passing this along. You might want to send all this info in an e-mail to A&E;Editor Rebecca Sulock () and Calendar Editor Mannie Dalton () just to make sure they know about it.

 
Reply #2 • Sep 24, 2008  01:20 PM
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OK, no lecture. But are these the same terms for payment that you offer your chef? Or conversely, would you like to cater my event? It doesn’t pay anything, but it’s a wonderful opportunity to expose more people to your food....

 
Reply #3 • Sep 24, 2008  03:20 PM
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These are the artists who have already performed here:

The Honeycutters
Johnson’s Crossroad
Every Mother’s Dream
Andrea Lee
Jon Hebert
Jason Pogue
Deb O’ Nare
Eliza Rosbach
Jason Ross Martin
James Stinnett
Gene Peyroux
Jason C. Waller

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New solo album “The Purple Flag” coming soon....
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http://www.myspace.com/oddstar

 
Reply #4 • Oct 20, 2008  11:38 AM
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The second appearance of Johnson’s Crossroad at PICNICS was a smashing success!  The cooler fall weather necessitated a move indoors, and the duo sat up in the corner of the small family diner/bistro/bakery on Merrimon Avenue.  From start to finish, the house filled up, creating the rare intimate setting for some amazingly performed originals and standards such as Johnny Cash. 

I personally helped get the tip jar flowing for the fellows, and at set break the band had made $50 dollars in tips, enjoyed a free round of beer on us, and sat down to enjoy around $20 worth of scratch-homecooking… I believe Paul went with Mom’s Stuffed Cabbage Roll…

I can only assume they made a few more tips in their second hour....  but let this true story inform your interest in contacting me to arrange your own peformance at PICNICS on a Friday or Saturday evening this fall/winter.  I am unaware of other gigs like this where you can walk out the door, fat, happy and over $50 richer and be DONE at 8 pm on a weekend evening.

Jason Ross Martin
PICNICS
828.258.2858

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New solo album “The Purple Flag” coming soon....
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http://www.myspace.com/oddstar

 
Reply #5 • Oct 21, 2008  11:49 AM
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If you’d like me to put you on my gigspam list, I’ll alert you to a lot more “true stories” of gigs that I walk away with far more than $25 (duo divides $50, right), plus being fat and happy. Your being “unaware” says more about the asperity of your research than it does about the service you’re providing.

Look, you can rouge that bad boy up as much as you’d like, you’re still asking musicians to perform a service for you that you are unwilling to pay for.  You can’t get a plumber, a doctor, the electric company etc. to agree to these terms.

The other thing I gotta ask, you’re counting that “$20 worth of scratch-homecooking” at retail, right? I mean, if I went out and bought the amount of food that was served, it wouldn’t cost me $20. SO you’re perfectly willing to charge value added, just not willing to pay value added.  Do you stock your kitchen the same way, whatever you can get for free or get others to pay for? No, you get the best quality produce and meats that you can afford and still hit the retail price points that you think works for you.

 
Reply #6 • Oct 21, 2008  12:50 PM
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He’s offering musicians a place to play where it’s pretty much guaranteed that they’ll make money and get a free meal, and you’re ragging on him for it?  Fifty dollars and food for less than two hours of “work” seems like a pretty decent deal, any way you swing it.

Believe me, I feel the whole thing about musicians not getting the respect/compensation they deserve.  But come on.

Plenty of venues in town and elsewhere don’t pay the musicians that play there.  It’s usually a door deal.  If no one shows up, you don’t get paid.  Fred’s, Broadway’s, New French Bar, Stella’s, etc.  It’s kind of how things are done.  A really good way to not play music anywhere is to go around demanding guarantees from venues.

If you don’t want to play Picnics, don’t.  Let the fifty dollars go to someone with a reasonable attitude who actually enjoys playing music.  Spend the hour and forty five minutes writing the business plan for your management company.

 
Reply #7 • Oct 21, 2008  12:58 PM
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Wait, so if you don’t want to play James Taylor and Jackson Browne covers for the masses you are a “square”?

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Reply #8 • Oct 21, 2008  01:05 PM
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Ed,

The kind of energy in your posts is not the kind of thing I’m looking for at PICNICS.

You just seem hateful and eager to lecture me.  I suspect your art is laden with the same kind of elitism and anger--and honestly I can’t imagine that someone who would bother to post the kind of rhetoric you have displayed here on this page is capable of creating a joyous, family style show that would enrich the kind of place we have at PICNICS.

Why don’t you contact Johnson’s Crossroad, The Honeycutters, Jason C. Waller, and some of the other artists and find out what they thought about the experience.  Perhaps the fact that they are willing to return to PICNICS will inform you as to their responses; I’m sure you won’t bother to follow up.  Why would you?

It’s so easy to roast me here, as I post in my true identity, with my very public persona--attached not only to PICNICS, and the music scene there that I have helped create, and the Chicken suit, and my own music endeavors..... 

This reminds me of that same hate mongering kind of speech that came out of the Listening Party not so long ago.  I believe then I was trying to defend the sensibilities of jam-rock.

Anyway…

Thank you for the wonderful response I have already had to my post to those of you who indeed are looking for “a great gig opportunity for EMERGING Asheville musicians.” For those of you already too EMERGED to find this situtation to be the win-win that it is---congratulations.  I know there are a lot of empty venues around the city that are dying to deal with your ego and pay you what you deserve!  LOL

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Reply #9 • Oct 21, 2008  02:05 PM
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Well, let’s see, where to begin?

Fifty dollars and food for less than two hours of “work” seems like a pretty decent deal, any way you swing it.” I’m trying not to read too much in the quotes around work in your quote Jason, but it doesn’t really address the concept of paying for things that you find valuable. You don’t find something valuable, great. Don’t buy it. But to tell me that it’s reasonable for me to give it to you for free (and let others pay for it, if they want to) when you don’t apply the same “logic” to all other parts of your business is ludicrous. You can’t afford music, don’t book it.

A really good way to not play music anywhere is to go around demanding guarantees from venues.” It’s a good way to not play music anywhere if you aren’t making music that’s marketable. I don’t believe I said ANYWHERE that someone was obligated to pay me music just because I wanted to play at their venue. If you don’t think I can make any money for you, why would you book me to begin with? But the bottom line is that, if you make some money because I’m playing someplace (buy selling food, drink and/or atmosphere), some of that money belongs to me.
One sure way to insure that the level of musical entertainment hits the absolute rock bottom is to create a situation where only those musicians that are unable to produce any kind of marquee value and command a “guarantee” have exposure.

“If you don’t want to play Picnics, don’t.  Let the fifty dollars go to someone with a reasonable attitude who actually enjoys playing music.” Well again, it’s only $25 a man ($50 for the duo, right?). And, if we go by the retail price quoted at PICNICS, that’s kind of only dinner for two with no beverage and a reasonable tip (for a server who is being paid and not working for tips and dinner). I won’t play at Picnics, simply because I place a higher value on myself than Jason does. To imply that NOT undervaluing what I do is in some way “unreasonable” is, again, ludicrous. You don’t have to care about what I care about, but to insist that I not care about it too is a bit much.
I do have to ask you to support your supposition that I don’t “enjoy playing music”. You seem to be making a meal on pretty thin sauce, there.

JMR- I’m sure my “energy” is not something you are looking for, I’m certain it’s nothing you’d be willing to pay for. You certainly don’t have to concern yourself on that account.  I do find it interesting that your response to the points I’ve raised (do you pay others who work in your establishment, do you pay for goods and services from those who aren’t musicians, are you willing to offer your services for the same agreement that you ask from musicians etc.) is to characterize it as “roasting”, “hate mongering”, “hateful” etc etc. Sure, it’s easier to demonize me than it is to answer the questions, that way you don’t have to really think about what you’re doing. But I would like to point out that I have not addressed ANY issues of personality concerning you at all.
If having a joyous, family style show that would enrich the kind of place we have at PICNICS.” is as important to you as it seems to be in your posts, is it not important enough to pay for? If you can’t afford it out of pocket, is it important enough to your customers that they would pay for it by supporting a set music charge? How many folks did you have in that night? If they needed to pay a $5 per person music charge would they have still come?
Or is it the kind of thing that, as long as it’s not bad enough to run people out and you don’t have to pay for it, let’s get her going?

I mean, it’s no skin off my nose since I don’t live there. But like I said to Joshua, the more places that only offer ‘opportunity’, the lower the incentive to do anything (other than get the hell out of there as soon as possible) to improve as a musician. I don’t know if you’re in the “local food” movement ( there do seem to be a lot of restaurants in Asheville who are), but ask yourself what would happen to local farms if no one was paying the price they required to put their produce on market.

 
Reply #10 • Oct 21, 2008  02:24 PM
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There are plenty of people who would be happy to have a place they could go and try out their songs on some people.  That’s why open mic nights exist at all.  And the opportunity to get paid for it is pretty neat.  It’s not necessarily something I’d be into doing, but I’m glad I know about it and I wouldn’t had I not read it here. 

If you think the folks playing/booking at Picnics are contributing to the devaluation of music, you should start another topic, because I’m sure that people would be willing to get all I’m-on-a-message-board-and-I’m-pissed about it with you.  I don’t really see any reason to jump all over Jason here, is all.

 
Reply #11 • Oct 21, 2008  02:31 PM
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I don’t really follow much of that last one Ed.

But the facts are, that a great touring act that’s emerging from Asheville just played in our little shop Saturday night.  And I know for a fact they made at least $50 bucks, and ate all they wanted for free on top of that, and left smiling, along with a lot of customers who did the same.  And then it was 8 pm on Saturday night, and everyone went out into the Asheville night feeling good, feeling healed, feeling like they were a part of something. 

I really don’t care about anything else.  That was a good moment.

I’m sure we’ll have plenty more at PICNICS.

I know that I am doing something by helping there be a little live music in our little restaurant, something that is good for our souls....  those of us who work there really look forward to it, and we welcome in the musicians (the majority of which who have played at this point came to this setting because they are my personal friends already) as FAMILY.  And we treat them with respect. 

Those of us who work there are doing the job for about $7-8 an hour plus tips.  And so it works out that the musicians are just like us while we’re all there. 

You really don’t understand at all what is going on at Picnics, Ed.  You are totally clueless.  So go ahead and flame this scene.  You can fill this page from here to doomsday with whatever you want.  Because on Friday night, we are going to have a house party where I work, with live music!  And I assure you that when Jason C. Waller eats a slice of Mom’s homemade pie on the house, he will not be thinking he has been ripped off!  He’ll know that in our world, at least, he’s a star for the night!

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Reply #12 • Oct 21, 2008  03:07 PM
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Jason Ross Martin - 21 October 2008 02:31 PM

Those of us who work there are doing the job for about $7-8 an hour plus tips. And so it works out that the musicians are just like us while we’re all there.

Well, not really. Cause they’re just playing for tips.
Continue to be insulting, I’m not going to respond in kind. It must be hitting something near and dear, though, for you to feel the need to respond to the person and not the comment.
 
Reply #13 • Oct 21, 2008  05:38 PM
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Jason C. Waller and Jason Pogue, Friday, October 24.......6pm
James Stinnett, Saturday, October 25.......6pm

Jason Ross Martin’s Halloween Show, Friday, October 31.....6pm
The Evening Post, Saturday, November 1........6pm

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New solo album “The Purple Flag” coming soon....
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http://www.myspace.com/oddstar

 
Reply #14 • Oct 22, 2008  08:14 AM
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The concept must be taking off, someone else is doing it too:

NC Rock For Change Concert Announced

Those people aren’t rocking for money, they are rocking for change (or preferably, small bills) and they are happy to do it, even without the extra incentive of pie!

With the current economy, I think we’ll start to see more musicians on the exit ramps now with home made signs saying they ”will rock for food.”

 
Reply #15 • Oct 24, 2008  08:09 PM
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Uh oh, is JRM at it again? Ed Fuqua should be praised for his astute, articulate and right on the money (or lack of, no pun intended) comments about Picnic’s and the Emerging Performers thing.

As someone who read all the comments, I found JRM’s rebuttals to be lacking in substance as it seems whenever someone points out the disparity between employees and performers, JRM puts on his wounded pride face and lets fly with accusations of negativity, hatemongering and the like.

Welcome to the Internet, JRM. If someone doesn’t agree with you here, they will not simply sit quietly and say nothing. That’s what sites like this are for, to encourage the flow of ideas. If others’ ideas differ from JRM’s, they should be encouraged to express them here. I find the tendency to accuse others with different opinions as haters or negative to be rather sanctimonius (a byproduct of the New Age ideal of PC speech but mountain folk call it high fallutin’).

JRM’s opening plug for Picnics leaves a bad taste in my mouth, which is sad as their food is quite good. JRM also (in later threads) says that the musicians who perform there are friends of his (I think that’s called cronyism to us common folk), so how is it an equal opportunity for a small musical acts who would desire to play there?

I live in Asheville, am familar with most of the acts feature there and would consider the acts that play there relatively “unknown” and would ask how JRM differentiates between them and other “unknown” performers? Unknown to him or unknown because they are hermits? JRM’s posts are all too familiar on the Xpress pages as lacking in substance this way. JRM is a bit too concerned with that “shiny happy people” image for his venue that he is willing to deny the opportunity to play there to those who don’t actively agree with his philosophoes on playing music in Asheville. How can you have a “shiny happy people” attitude while at the same time denigrating Ed’s points?

About the money thing: Yes $50 isn’t bad for 2 hours of playing time and some free food never hurts. But......many clubs in Asheville are now following suit by lowering the musical bar in clubs, restaurants and at other venues that feature live music. It is not unreasonable for a musician to demand compensation- it is unreasonable for a musician to be demonized for it though. Asheville live music venues are cutting costs just like everyone else, and when one person gets fed up with playing somewhere for lack of money, there will always be 10 more to take their place because they crave gigs.

JRM’s comment alluding to Ed’s comments being ego driven doesn’t make sense as an ego driven performer wouldn’t refuse to play a club because exposure is everything in Asheville’s oversaturated musical market.

Here’s a comparison: if American companies outsource jobs overseas because Abu (from India) will do it for less, is an American worker who now is asked to work for less a hater when he points this fact out? Is he negative? The situation at Picnic’s seems to follow the same logic. NOTE- I’m not dragging Picnics into this as I’ve eaten there for years (long before JRM moved here- I’m assuming he may also work there?). I’m merely pointing out that Ed’s comments make sense and should be addressed for the benefit of all to make up their own minds about whether or not to perform there.

Back in the day when organized labor actually meant something, workers would strike to demand adequate pay (darn hatemongers). When factories told them “strike all you want, we’ll hire folks to work for less”, striking workers referred to these new workers as “scabs”. Needless to say these scabs were not held in high regard by workers trying to be adequately compensated for a service provided (yes, live music is a service).

I would ask how far is JRM willing to follow his logic? By that, theoretically if Picnic’s lost money and had to cut musician pay, do away with food deals or the like, would he still maintain that it was a great deal to play there?

This reminds me of the scene in John Steinbeck’s “The Grapes of Wrath” where Preacher Casy is trying to motivate his fellow fruit pickers to go on strike after the orchard owners slashed the pay. Preacher Casy (paraphrasing) says to the workers that if you received $5 a truckload of peaches yesterday, $3 dollars today and knew it may be lowered further, would you stand by idly and take it? Sadly most of the migrant fruit pickers did and told Casy in effect “Man, it’s money, I gotta eat. Yeah I’ll work for less for the same job”. I find many musicians in town doing the same thing with gigs and denying that they are in fact enabling establishments to continue this behavior. Hats off Ed for pointing out that the Emporer has no clothes.

Don’t worry JRM by the way, I won’t be playing Picnics or trying to hit you up for a gig. Even if I did, you seem to have your mind made up about who is playing there already (and as you’ve never met me, I guess we’re not friends so how could I ever get a gig there?) I won’t be trash talking your event either as it’s not my style. I do enjoy playing solo shows once in a while but as my musical ideology differs from yours, that eliminates me from consideration.

I will demonstrate the whole tired argument of the freedom of the press by posting comments such as these, however. Call me what you will, hater, cynic, etc. but please point out (verbatim) which comments fall into that category. I see most musicians locally as very reluctant to rock the boat when it comes to their own careers (whether they be household names or unknown as I would consider myself- I’m not on the cover of Rolling Stone or Mountain Xpress). Trying to “organize” musicians to demand adequate pay is like herding cats. It can’t be done.

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