I almost stopped in Spartanburg on the way back from the beach today. Almost.
The problem (well, one of many) with downtown spurg is it is a good 20 minutes from either major highway/freeway. One cant exactly ‘swing through’ on there way back from the beach.
Even if there are some good cornholing opportunities.
you know, carlisle used to be thought of as one of the worst areas in spartanburg. crack central.
I know. Post this on the Spartanburg thread, and we can talk in detail.
okey dokey.
hampton heights is the new montford. a neighborhood that deteriorated due to white flight and the socio-economics of the coke/crack trade. Then, once the neighborhood gets REALLY bad, and starts effecting the property value of neighboring neighborhoods, the banks come in and provide loans funded by the banks themselves, as well as local wealthy businesspeople, to “renovate” the neighborhood in the name of “Historical Preservation”
The worst part, is most the people involved int he process seem completely unaware
of their role in the process. They think they are doing something good.
have you ever interacted with any of those Spurg preservation trust people?
hampton heights is the new montford. a neighborhood that deteriorated due to white flight and the socio-economics of the coke/crack trade. Then, once the neighborhood gets REALLY bad, and starts effecting the property value of neighboring neighborhoods, the banks come in and provide loans funded by the banks themselves, as well as local wealthy businesspeople, to “renovate” the neighborhood in the name of “Historical Preservation”
The worst part, is most the people involved int he process seem completely unaware
of their role in the process. They think they are doing something good.
True enough. I’m well aware that I’ve become one of the gentrifiers I used to complain about. It’s not exactly the same as what happened in Montford, but it’s really, really close.
have you ever interacted with any of those Spurg preservation trust people?
They remind me of stepford wives.
That’s who we bought our house from. At first, I thought they were really cool and had a real mission to preserve and restore the houses around here. Instead, I’ve come to realize that they’re more akin to a non-profit group of house-flippers. I’ve been really underwhelmed by their “restoration” of my house, which amounted to not much more than putting in new appliances, doing some rewiring and repainting, and adding about $75k to the sale price of the house.
That said, they really have helped change the Carlisle and Hydrick Street area. This place was the crack ghetto only about three years ago, from what I’ve been told many times by many people. Today, it’s probably the safest street in Hampton Heights and filled with young, white creative class types.
I’m going to call my eventual memoir or my Spartanburg experience “I, Gentrifier.”
That’s who we bought our house from. At first, I thought they were really cool and had a real mission to preserve and restore the houses around here. Instead, I’ve come to realize that they’re more akin to a non-profit group of house-flippers. I’ve been really underwhelmed by their “restoration” of my house, which amounted to not much more than putting in new appliances, doing some rewiring and repainting, and adding about $75k to the sale price of the house.
yeah, thats all that happened down there. the preservation trust is funded by rich people from the surrounding neighborhoods, and they made a good return on their initial investment by doing exactly what you describe above. i almost bought a place right on carlisle in 06 (07?), for like 30k, but they painted it, and the next day wanted 75k. seriously. needless to say, i passed.
That said, they really have helped change the Carlisle and Hydrick Street area. This place was the crack ghetto only about three years ago, from what I’ve been told many times by many people. Today, it’s probably the safest street in Hampton Heights and filled with young, white creative class types.
True, to an extent. but they have done nothing, obviously, to address the roots of the problem, of course. they just pushed people out of their homes. where do those folks live now?
I’m going to call my eventual memoir or my Spartanburg experience “I, Gentrifier.”
I dont blame you any more than i blame myself. we are all complicit in the problem. i was there doing the actual gentrification before you, so i’m far more guilty than you, in that sense, if that makes you feel any better. It’s not so much about blame as being honest about the problem.
blame is just a shell game to a large degree. honestly describing the problem is a better path towards the very long road of discovering real solutions ot problems that are far deeper than any one person or group of people.
I had a conversation or two with a few old ladies from carlisle street a few years back, and they were kinda happy about the ‘restoration”. they got a good price for their dump, and were able to leave a neighborhood filled with poverty, and the crime and drugs that go along with it. So you cant just blame the new, young, artsy, predominately pastey folks who have come down and made themselves a home in that nice neighborhood.
My sense of the preservation trust ladies was they really believed they were doing a good thing. they had no idea they were being used by the banks and local businesses to do their dirty work.
And, from what i know about the montford historical society, they pretty much did the same thing for montford gentrifiers by providing loans at low-to-no interest rates to do major improvements (roof, plumbing, foundation, etc), which, in turn, raised the valuer of the house and neighborhood. these homeowners could then sell their home five years later at a MAJOR profit and pay back the loan with lots of profit left over. Not much different than how the preservation trust operated, except the preservation trust kept the profits within their small circle.
Did you run into this weird “Can’t do” attitude down here? I keep meeting people who claim that downtown will never be interesting, can’t support anything interesting or worthy, and that nothing will ever, ever change for the better. Never mind that is has—and is—changing as we speak.
It’s so bizarre. Someone actually told me that a late-night cafe COULD NEVER work downtown. A town with six colleges, mind you, and a new college campus being build BLOCKS away from Main Street. And never mind that there have been at least two successful ones—Java Jive and CrossWays—neither of which appears to have closed for financial reasons. And that’s just one example.
Not everyone is like this, or course, but I’ve run into enough people who are that I’d definitely say it’s a not-uncommon attitude.
Brebro: You’re more right than you know. When I pointed out that the city of Spartanburg actually went Democrat during the last election—a hugely historic moment—people simply refused to believe it. Had the Dems actually bothered to actually field any local candidates, which they didn’t because they evidently don’t think it’s worth the effort, they would have gained all kinds of local power at the city and county level. I was told by many people that this simply couldn’t happen in Spartanburg, even though it just did.
They would have won had they even put up a well-named dog with as a candidate.
I also pointed out that the GOP here was really weak and essentially destroying itself. I was told this is impossible, and that the local GOP is as strong as ever. A few months later, the entire power structure of the local GOP is voted out, including the Chairman, who I was told is the most powerful Republican leader in the county.
I’ve never seen so much denial about change before. Not even hypothetical change, but obvious change that’s actually taking place right in front of people’s eyes. It’s like that scene in “Eric the Viking” when the Kingdom of Hy-Brasil is literally sinking into the ocean, and the king keeps saying “Everyone stay calm! This is not happening!”
I would imagine the folks who grew up there have a hard time seeing and believing the hype, since they have been conditioned for 20 or 30 or more years by the corrupt business folks and power structure of the GOP and whatnot.
Spurg has a long way to go and for folks who grew up there, im sure the potential will take a while to sink in. From what i figure, all the dreamers and those ‘types’ probbaly already left spurg, for asheville or somewhere else, so the ones left behind wont be quite as, er, motivated? It’ll really have to be the kids who are late teens early 20’s, who havent yet come to accept that it sucks.
I’m glad your so stoked on it though. Spurg needs someone like that, and the spartanburg spark is probably a great catylyst in many ways,, since your kinda outside new blood. When i was there, i felt that spartanburg had nothing BUT potential.
The skate park just opened recently. And it has a pretty darn good graffiti wall.
Beltram was about as kicked out as it’s possible to get. He was running neck-and-neck in the contest for the head of the S.C. GOP, and when he got booted in a massive loss from the Spartanburg County Chair, it nipped that right in the bud. He’s gone from kingmaker to nobody in mere weeks.
Right now, the local GOP is completely fractured, and having to find a new headquarters and more-or-less starting from scratch, because Beltram had arranged the whole structure to be dependent on him being at the very center of it all. He leased the headquarters, he owned most of the equipment the party used, he did most of the P.R. and so forth.
I mean, it’s a HUGE opportunity for the Dems. Thus far, they don’t seem to be able to capitalize on it very much, and I’m thinking their defeatist attitude is playing no small part in this.
I’m just saying that it might be an important perspective to remember that this change is all so very new, and that most who grew up in spurg and stayed there are very conditioned to accept the status quo. The ones who have it in their nature to fight for change have already defected to more progressive regions.
and why the assumption that the Democratic party would be any kind of good counter-point, really? I know little to nothing about Spartanburg County and City politics, besides a few meals with Rick, but from what i can tell the whole town’s political scene is deeply corrupt. It seems ot me it will take more than a fractured R to mobilize any real Progress in the direction you may wish to see. I mean, if you can take asheville politics as an example, the so-called ‘leftists’ like brownie and holly arent exactly full of great ideas. They just throw money they dont really haveat half-baked ideas. How will that help the spurg?
Perhaps you should run for council, steve.
Slow and steady, Shanafelt. It sure as hell aint gonna happen overnight when that county has been run by the same 10 people for longer than you or i have been alive.
As far as the rest of the town, and the possibility there, i think it will really take the continued effort of folks like you and the folks running the hub-bub and the people putting together the skate park, and all the other cool little glimmers of hope—-All of that combined will give the high-school kids something to build upon as they come of age.
As for the colleges you mention in an earlier post—-it seems valid to also note that they are predominately conservative colleges with a student body to suit that mood (I think Wofford has a weekend curfew, and the girls are not allowed to be seen out alone after 9pm-or something along those lines). Sure as hell aint UNCA or Warren Wilson. I think maybe you got spoiled in Asheville and have your expectations too high. Give the Spurg a good five to ten years and it might have a chance at a chance, but until then, it is an uphill battle.
As i said earlier-the town has TONS of potential. But JUST potential doesnt a scene make. Downtown has no Julian Prices, and the college’s dont attract predominately young, left-leaning rebels and freaky artist/musician types. I think most the spurg girls still go to college to find a husband (which is why i love SC so much—its like living in a 1950’s movie. Young women actually WANT to get married and preggers. Please dont turn them into asheville feministwhores.)
You’re dead-on, Piffy. And I’m in no rush to change anything. It’s interesting just to watch the process of change happen. It’s very much like being in a time machine, looking back at what happened in cities all over the country in the early 1990s.
As to the bewilderment, it’s mostly a frustration about running into people who are clearly unhappy with the status quo, clearly would like to see progress in the city, but who simply refuse to believe that it can happen for reason that amount to “Because it just can’t.”
Social conditioning is clearly part of it. The city’s restrictive and meddlesome oligarchy is clearly a factor, although it seems like they’re grip is weakening because of the recession. The ongoing exodus of progressive, creative, talented people to greener pastures is obvious, although refugees not unlike myself are helping to offset this. But everything you’ve said is very real.
On the whole, however, I’ve been impressed with how progressive some parts of the city are. It seems like there’s more and more people coming out of the woodwork every day. The Spark may be one catalyst for this—I’d like to think it’s at least part of the conversation—but it’s really something bigger and more subtle than just a handful of noisy progressive people. It’s almost as if there were all these people who’ve been waiting for an excuse to move the town in a new direction, but were waiting for some undefined moment to actually do anything about it.
I really wouldn’t want it to be Asheville-like. I’d just want it to be an interesting, active, somewhat self-supporting community worth living in. It would really only take a handful of changes to make that happen, many of which are either here and building, or in some stage of planning.
