My understanding is that the farming of animals for food is a leading factor in environmental degradation. I don’t know a lot about this, but would like to know more…

Thoughts?

Great topic. I’d think that the answer depends entirely on how you define the term “environmental degradation.”

If were talking about damage to the overall ecosystem, I’d think pollution from agribusiness, industrial wastes, everyday pollution (from car exhaust to garbage in landfills) and damage from land development would be at the top of the list.

Livestock can create some pretty gross waste, no question, but most of that waste is organic and biodegradable. Manure, urine, blood, bones, flesh—all are part of the natural environmental decay process, and apart from the sheer volume, it’s exactly the kind of stuff you’d encounter in a forest. It’s filled with stuff you wouldn’t want in high amounts in your drinking water, but once bacteria get their cilia on it, it’s dealt with normally. There’s also secondary markets for a lot of that stuff, so a lot of the waste gets reused as fertilizer or goes to a rendering plant.

That said, I doubt having a large amount of animals collected in one place is good for the local environment, and if one tallied up all the waste products from animal-based products (raw waste, not counting indirect things like the impact of all the sewage), I’m sure it would be quite significant. If memory serves, one of the biggest issues is waste water from livestock, which can certainly pollute the local water table.

Then again, on the whole it’s probably less than the same sort of impact caused by growing non-native plant species for human consumption. Native plants, insects and animals become “pests,” and almost every effort is made to eradicate them from the area. It’s very damaging to the local ecosystem, particularly when you factor in the impact of the fertilizer, pesticide, the impact of the pollution from the farm machines and all the unused parts of the plant that have to be processed into a reusable form.

I have to say, Steve, it seems like you are bringing some of the argument from the other thread into this one. Plant crops don’t really factor into a discussion of the meat and dairy industry’s impact on the environment. Kinda feels like an effort to minimize that impact and defend the consumption of dairy and meat.

On that note, I’m going out into internet world to see what I can pull up. But, at least for now, can we just zero in specifically on the meat and dairy industry?

Wasn’t the big spinach scare a result of a waste lagoon from a huge pig farm leaking out into the field?

Also, what about methane gas? (cow farts...snicker snicker).

You make a good point. This discussion could easily spiral into another topic, and we should draw a clear line between the two.

For clarity, my (admittedly long-winded) reply was meant to address what that term “environmental degradation” covers, and some of the things that could be said to cause it. I did address farming waste, sure, but that was as after two long paragraphs specifically about the environmental impact of livestock and their waste. I was trying to give context, rather than derail the topic.

Also, how are we defining “environmental degradation”? That phrase could mean a lot of things in a lot of different contexts. Are we talking about overall impact to the global ecosystem in general, or more like specific damage to a specific ecosystem? And, are we talking about damage to the native ecosystems, or damage to something more broad, like the impact on water tables?

“Also, how are we defining “environmental degradation”?”

In this particular thread, it would be whatever the MEAT and DAIRY industries are doing to contribute to (or create in and of themselves) environmental problems.

Could be any of the things you mentioned after that. So, discussing how many native species (including in the Amazon...where they are found exclusively) are being destroyed by clearing for cow grazing, would be an appropriate item for discussion.  And I actually witnessed this first hand in my travels through South America. American business knows to take the dirty work where we can’t see it...and they know most of us are too damn busy or lazy or apathetic to go looking for it.

Wow....I’m looking, but I’ll tell you, I’m finding it hard to find information that isn’t biased on one side or the other.... Off I go....

AshaKasha - 25 January 2008 04:18 PM

Wow....I’m looking, but I’ll tell you, I’m finding it hard to find information that isn’t biased on one side or the other.... Off I go....

It’s out there, but you may have to dig. There’s no question that the Amazon is getting shafted right now by all kind of development. Cheap land, cheap labor, few regulations and lax enforcement of what laws there are make it pretty much awful for the native species. Armageddon-like, really.

OK...for the sake of getting this discussion off the ground, here are some snippets from Wikipedia (would we all agree this is a non-biased site?):

“Animals fed on grain and those which rely on grazing need more water than grain crops.[2] According to the USDA, growing crops for farm animals requires nearly half of the U.S. water supply and 80% of its agricultural land. Animals raised for food in the U.S. consume 90% of the soy crop, 80% of the corn crop, and 70% of its grain.[1] In tracking food animal production from the feed through to the dinner table, the inefficiencies of meat, milk and egg production range from a 4:1 energy input to protein output ratio up to 54:1.[3] The result is that producing animal-based food is typically much less efficient than the harvesting of grains, vegetables, legumes, seeds and fruits.”

“According to U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), “methane is emitted from a variety of both human-related (anthropogenic) and natural sources. Human-related activities include fossil fuel production, animal husbandry (enteric fermentation in livestock and manure management...”

“The American Public Health Association and the United States National Academy of Sciences have stated that “pollution from massive animal factories jeopardizes public health in rural communities across the nation. Bearing no resemblance to the traditional family farm, these facilities pack thousands of animals into small spaces, produce as much waste as a small city, and spew toxic gases and other pollutants into the air. Livestock production is the single largest contributor of ammonia gas release in the United States, and giant animal factories also emit hydrogen sulfide and fine dust particles—both of which are linked to respiratory illness—in dangerous quantities."[5]"

That’s just a start....the site provides all kinds of information-