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spare the rod and spoil the child
 
Reply #31 • Aug 02, 2008  06:42 AM
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Mr. Yuck - 01 August 2008 08:09 PM

The logistics of keeping the ice water handy defy me.

102112 Alligator Ice Bucket.jpg

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Reply #32 • Aug 02, 2008  09:34 AM
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TomH - 01 August 2008 06:46 PM

Best all around method is ice water, shocking but harmless. It will cure anything, even an erection.

oops7yt.gif

Why would you want to cure that?

 
Reply #33 • Aug 02, 2008  05:58 PM
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Orbit DVD - 02 August 2008 09:34 AM
TomH - 01 August 2008 06:46 PM

Best all around method is ice water, shocking but harmless. It will cure anything, even an erection.

oops7yt.gif

Why would you want to cure that?

I have some cures for that particular, er, condition that are far more interactive and enjoyable!

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Reply #34 • Aug 02, 2008  06:07 PM
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Jason Bugg - 01 August 2008 03:58 PM

I was afraid of my parents. I don’t hate them. I just knew that if I screwed up I’d get the crap beaten out of me.

Odds are if you don’t hit your kids you are just going to buy them dirtbikes one day, and then they are going to be pricks their whole life.

Yeah, I dont see the definative connection between hitting or being hit and anger or violence. I fully understand many see it as the same. But I don’t. Life can be violent. To a certain degree, some children, at times, need to have that boundary defined for them. This is worlds away from beating a child (or anyone for that matter) out of anger, frustration, or any other lack of control of ones emotions.

Anytime I was smacked hard enough to remember it, I also remembered what I was hit for. “Dont do that.” “Noted.” I had more respect for my mother when I saw how she was able to channel her emotions constructively to impart an important lesson, and even at 8 or 10 I could see that she wasn’t ‘out of control’, but rather showing me something important.

There can be plenty of painful consequences in life, I see no reason why the home should be any different of a learning place.  And most the kids I grew up with who were definitely out of control, and often violent, were the kids whose parents didnt discipline in any kind of consistent way.

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Reply #35 • Aug 03, 2008  06:17 AM
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posnideus - 02 August 2008 06:07 PM


There can be plenty of painful consequences in life, I see no reason why the home should be any different of a learning place.  And most the kids I grew up with who were definitely out of control, and often violent, were the kids whose parents didnt discipline in any kind of consistent way.

There ought not be painful consequences at home.  Studies generally show that the more violent and abusive parents are the more likely the child will exhibit aggressive behavior.  Firmness and consistency are quite effective at establishing boundaries.  The message you send when striking a child is first and foremast, I’m bigger and stronger than you so I can do this.

When I first started teaching it was during an era when the teacher was held in loco parentis.  I was teaching a bunch of roughneck juvenile delinquents.  On occasion many of the male teachers used physical force, typically a good slap to head or cheek.  It was effective with kids like that many of whom knew nothing other than physical force.  I later came to realize I was being rather selective with my smacks.  Then it dawned on me, “hey, you’re whacking only kids you think you can over power” end of technique.

Years later, after 19 teaching in public schools, I had occasion to return to institutional teaching where it was now illegal to strike the kids.  We were taught special restraint techniques when needed but the kids were so big I was literally incapable of applying the lessons, rarely had to.

The fact is, these big tough street kids were pretty much under control using incentives of one sort or another but firmness, consistency and a sense of fairness where we treated the kids with respect and demanded the same was the rule.  Back up plan was a staff member with others available if needed, who WAS big enough to take a kid to the floor.  Best job I ever had though I had successfully applied these concepts to public school very successfully as well.

My mom slapped me in the face just once that, I can recall, and the resentment that it brought lasted a very long time. Maybe not, if there is a sense that it was deserved.  In my case it was done out of a fear reaction and certainly not justified.  Tell you, compared to other families, we have a very close relationship with both our adult children.  They both count as among our best friends.  I don’t know about you, but I enjoy this sort of relating.

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“Just as tall trees are known by their shadows, so are good men known by their enemies”

Chinese Proverbs

 
Reply #36 • Aug 06, 2008  02:56 AM
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TomH - 02 August 2008 06:42 AM
Mr. Yuck - 01 August 2008 08:09 PM

The logistics of keeping the ice water handy defy me.

102112 Alligator Ice Bucket.jpg

The tongs might have been useful.

 
Reply #37 • Aug 06, 2008  08:53 AM
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Mr. Yuck - 06 August 2008 02:56 AM
TomH - 02 August 2008 06:42 AM
Mr. Yuck - 01 August 2008 08:09 PM

The logistics of keeping the ice water handy defy me.

102112 Alligator Ice Bucket.jpg

The tongs might have been useful.

Yeah, wish I had known about this 10 years ago.

 
Reply #38 • Aug 06, 2008  12:51 PM
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Nobody has disputed my dirtbike claim. I must be on to something.

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Why yes I have a blog. What? You want to see my underwear? That’s over the line, sir.

 
Reply #39 • Aug 06, 2008  02:08 PM
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whenever i hear, “and i deserved it” i can’t help but think that this is the perfect illustration of the damage done by parental (and other) violence.

think of a wife in a domestic abuse shelter ... “well, he hit me out of love, and only when i deserved it” ...

make me wanna cry ...

 
Reply #40 • Aug 06, 2008  04:46 PM
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I’ll tell you what makes me want to cry, people thinking their children are special little snowflakes. They are all pricks. Don’t buy them dirtbikes.

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Why yes I have a blog. What? You want to see my underwear? That’s over the line, sir.

 
Reply #41 • Aug 06, 2008  04:48 PM
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Jason Bugg - 06 August 2008 04:46 PM

I’ll tell you what makes me want to cry, people thinking their children are special little snowflakes. They are all pricks. Don’t buy them dirtbikes.

I’m a special little snowflake ... made of cynicism.

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