TomH,
I have come to know a lot of people over the past many years and I have never met a single one I know of who traveled out of the United States to a foreign country for medical care. Having worked for a company whose parent was Canadian, I have known of a few who came here instead (each involving advanced medical practice and treatment). How much actual knowledge have you gained in this area? I am not stating you are incorrect however I do not see a trend. To the contrary, the trend seems reversed.
My wife is canadian. Her father wont come to the states because he is scared of the health care ‘system”. I have had the occasion of going to the hospital while there, only on a tourist visa, and my visit cost me next to nothing. No lines, no rediculous bills or understaffed offices. Honestly, canadians in vancouver, bc think that american’s perception of the health care siuation is quite funny. I have’nt been to a us doctor in something like a decade, because i hate the whole experience. Conversly, my canadian experience made it seem efficent, simple, and painless.
Now, that does not mean i endorse the system as a blueprint for what we could do here in the states. I think the US population is SO much larger than Canada, or france, or wherever, that you cant compare them with the states. But, still, when i hear people making those anecdotes about canadians coming to the states, i have to chuckle a bit. The only folks I or my wife have ever heard of going to the states for medical treatment are folks who want something deemed ‘non-essential”, such as plastic surgery. In fact, If a canadian doesnt wish to be on a ‘waiting list’ for something, they can just pay a private canadian doctor to do it immediately.
Considering the massive flaws with the US medical system, it seems silly to make claims about canadians flocking to the states for coverage because of the supposed “long lines” for common treatments. Kaiser Permanente are not your friends.
Many are traveling to Mexico for cheap dental care and India has a thriving tourist business. I know of nobody myself who has availed themselves of India’s medical services but know of a few who have gone to Mexico for dental. In fact my wife has considered it as she has a friend who lives there half the year.
Medical Tourism India (a.k.a. Health Tourism India) is a developing concept whereby people from world over visit India for their medical and relaxation needs. Most common treatments are heart surgery, knee transplant, cosmetic surgery and dental care. The reason India is a favourable destination is because of it’s infrastructure and technology in which is in par with those in USA, UK and Europe. India has some of the best hospitals and treatment centers in the world with the best facilities. Since it is also one of the most favourable tourist destinations in the world, Medication combines with tourism has come into effect, from which the concept of Medical Tourism is derived. http://www.medical-tourism-india.com/
HOWTO: Get Your Teeth Fixed in Mexico…
In the United States, major dental work can be financially ruinous. Without belaboring the lively political topic of why this is, I am here to report that it is possible for a US resident to save 75% or more on major dental work by the simple expedient of having it done in Mexico.
I am convinced that Senator Barack Hussein Obama II is a socialist.
1) A socialist system includes the redistribution of wealth.
We have this. It’s called “taxes.”
William P Miller - 26 July 2008 05:04 AM
2) Socialism often refers to “common ownership” ... That implies that the simple majority would be able to dictate the lifestyle of the minority. In the extreme case (China for example) the minority can dictate the lifestyle of the majority. Socialism takes away personal freedom.
Our roads? Our schools? Our libraries. Our military. Our City/County Plaza. We own all of these things in common. That’s pretty much all “common ownership” means, it’s just extended in socialist models to include things like “Our hospitals.”
It sounds like you’re in denial about how the American system works. Would you prefer a common-market, capitalist version? Then, only the rich could send their kids to school, there are few public services of any kind, and all the power is concentrated in the hands of a very few with money. I’ve seen this before in the Third World (Morocco and Honduras come to mind).
If you hate the American system so much, maybe you should reconsider whether this is the right country for you. I love this country, however, and only want to see it get better.
By the way ... are you now—or were you ever—the poster known as “Nam Vet”?
TomH said: “No, while your definition of socialism as a transitional phase maybe acceptable, the real question is not about Marx but about Jesus or to be more precise, compassion. There seems to be a fear on the right that if government gets too involved in the welfare of it’s people we are flirting with socialism or worse yet, communism.”
TomH, I am all in favor of compassion...PRIVATELY. The idea that government employees and power hungry politicians can somehow bring a kinder, gentler life to us all is quite the leftwing pipe dream. Stop looking to government to solve problems. Just ACT individually. DO what you think will be good for society...personally. Saying you are in favor of a New York style liberal “making things right” is proof you are not paying attention. Retirees from the northeast have moved here in droves because they cannot afford $5000 a year property taxes back home. And y’all want to change us to what you moved from? HUH? Think about it. New York does NOT work. North Carolina DOES. The difference? Not nearly as much socialism.
The American dream was started from the idea that a man is endowed with certain rights, just because we are all children of God. Our country started as a libertarian country. Excursions into socialism-lite have been failures. Jefferson was right. “The government that governs least, governs best.”
Steve, Steve, Steve. What will it take for you to realize that essential government services concerning protection and education are not “socialist”? Check to Wikipedia again, my friend. Socialism refers to “public” (read government) control and ownership of the means of production...and the redistribution of wealth. Where did you go to college? Just curious.
Socialist countries: the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the People’s Republic of China, Cuba. Socialist-lite countries: France (just elected a conservative president), Canada ( many Canadians visit the USA for advanced medical care...no lines and superior care). The Netherlands a few years back changed from socialist-nihilist government to conservative.
Socialism HERE? High taxes and redistribution to those who do not work. Welfare & entitlements. There are a few who really need it. It is a scam business by many to get “free” money from government (read us taxpayers).
Steve, if you want socailsim, keep it private. Give all your disposable income to the “poor”. Do it and walk your talk. Don’t expect me to help your “health” care.
TomH, I am all in favor of compassion...PRIVATELY. The idea that government employees and power hungry politicians can somehow bring a kinder, gentler life to us all is quite the leftwing pipe dream. Stop looking to government to solve problems. Just ACT individually. DO what you think will be good for society...personally. Saying you are in favor of a New York style liberal “making things right” is proof you are not paying attention. Retirees from the northeast have moved here in droves because they cannot afford $5000 a year property taxes back home. And y’all want to change us to what you moved from? HUH? Think about it. New York does NOT work. North Carolina DOES. The difference? Not nearly as much socialism.
I’m not sure you understand why people from the NE have moved here. The biggest complaint I hear from locals is the onslaught of wealthy people who obviously do not care one way or the other about taxes and in any case, in NY or CT or wherever it is they’ve come from, the taxes THEY paid were far higher than $5000. That amount is for a home that is worth under $100,000 so your figures are out of date and will vary according to the area.
I agree with one statement, NY doesn’t work and NC does, FOR ME! That being said I’ve got a few friends and relatives still living up there who are doing just fine and have absolutely no thought of moving for any reason.
I’ve lived in two states by choice. I leave out NY because it was not a choice, I was born. To be clear, I moved to AZ in 1993 for personal reasons that had nothing to do with money. When we decided to move here, same thing, we chose the place for personal reasons, not financial ones.
A little secret sir, people manage to deal with what they have and don’t, in reality, go bouncing around just because of money issues. New Yorkers, any folks from the NE principally will cite climate as a big issue, not money. My mom and pop both moved here to be near family members. Money was never a consideration but, at least for my mom, climate was.
North Carolina would not have worked for us at any time prior to my retirement. I was a teacher for 25 years and quite frankly, teachers in NC are getting the short end in terms of salary and benefits. Case in point, my son, working for Biltmore Inn, has better health coverage than his girl friend who works for the City of Asheville schools And I have far better health insurance than either, earned as part of my retirement package.
Tell you, in my experience I don’t know people who will pick up and move a thousand miles or more to avoid high taxes. The attraction for most is to stay close to that which is familiar. People adapt. We never gave it a thought. We went where we wanted to go and dealt with whatever we had to to make it work. I could make NY work for me again, taxes or no, but it’s too damn cold. But, funny thing is, we moved to AZ in ‘93 for reasons other than money. We came here likewise, for other reasons, climate, culture and the mountains.
I don’t care to tout the benefits of either NY nor NC. I am here now. If we had to move back up there, we would make it work as we always have. I also don’t care to tout the benefits of socialism vs free market capitalism. Neither really exists and I leave it to those with Phds in economics or whatever, to determine what mix will best suit this country. I’ve always been really good at seeing the wrongs but not so good at how to fix things. It has been my observation, however, that dogmatic thinking is not the way.
I adhere to no political or religious ideologies. My postings are, at best, exercises of intellect, not espousals of principal. It would, to say the least, be absolutely marvelous if people could actually discuss things without all the labeling and assumptions. Bottom line is, you do not know me, I do not know you thus all discussions here should remain academic, not personal.
So TomH, the solution to teachers not getting the same benefits as private industry employees is to raise property taxes? No way. And besides, schools should be supported by everyone, not just home owners. School support should come from sales taxes.
The American dream is to own a house. The middle class, and lower working classes, here in North Carolina have been able to buy houses, and trailers. One reason is that the property taxes are relatively low here. How many teachers in New York, New jersey, Connecticutt, or Massachutesas can afford the American dream? Not many I would guess. Not with $200k homes taxed at $5000 a year or more. House payment $750 + taxes $500 per month is too steep for most. And what becomes of these high taxes? How do the government commissars in NY use the money? Well, if you are governor Spritzer, you have a slush fund for $5000 a session prostitutes. -:)
The working person deserves to keep most of the fruits of their labor. High taxes spoil the American dream and make a new elite class of people who do not produce: bureaucrats. “The government that governs least, governs best.” Thomas Jefferson, the South’s most favorite son, along with General Robert E Lee of course. -:)
So TomH, the solution to teachers not getting the same benefits as private industry employees is to raise property taxes? No way. And besides, schools should be supported by everyone, not just home owners. School support should come from sales taxes.
If you want good teachers ya gotta pay for them regardless of where the money comes from. The American dream is just that, a dreaqm that is eluding more and more people in this country. As for how many teachers up there can afford to own a home, I would say most if not all, unlike Asheville, I might add, where salaries are too low and housing prices too high. You simply don’t know what you are talking about in this regard.
You better look again at the availability of housing for lower and middle class buyers. Maybe outside the metro Asheville area but way outside. My wife is in real estate and knows this to be true. People are coming to her with wildly erroneous expectations about what a buck will by. Fact is, few children of locals can afford to remain here from what I’ve read.
Meanwhile, back up north, there are areas where real estate prices are tanking. I could move to my old home town and buy a nicer house for less money than I spent here. It depends on the area, just like anywhere else. The town I last lived in up north, was in the Hudson Valley, far too close to NYC. Away from the city pressures you can do far better than you can in Asheville and vicinity. The pressure in areas like this, is coming from the wealthy, many of whom have bought second homes in the area.
You say school support should come from sales taxes. Our idea in NY was to transfer the whole cost to the graduated income tax. Sales tax is regressive as hell. By the way most places that have a high cost of living, high salaries are the rule. Asheville may prove to be one of the few exceptions. My knowledge of the market here, though limited, tells me we’ve arrived as far as teachers go.
Yes, the Mountain Xpress needs a subsidy so that dual editions can be printed in both English and Spanish. To keep Senator Obama happy.
Posnideus, if you have such affection for socialism, then live it yourself. You don’t even have to move to Cuba. Just make out an austere budget with simple inexpensive foods, clothes from Good Will, etc. Kill your TV, computer, telephone, and any other unnecessary gadget you have. Oh wait, that’s right. You already live under as bridge in a camping situation. Well never mind. At least you can afford to rent time on Malaprop’s house computers to post you pleasant messages here. -:)
once again, Mr. Words-per-Minute, you are completely hijacking a thread with 1) your personal attacks implying that P is a troll, (anyone here know a story about a pot and a kettle?) 2) referring to other other theads/discussions in this forum without any context (bilingualism and Obama relate to this discussion how, exactly?) and, if we are doing that now, 3) still not answering the question that several of us have posed to you, Sir.
Are you, or were you, NamVet on this forum before? or not?
I confess that I suspect (hope) that if/when you confirm that you are, in fact, a sock puppet for above-mentioned poster, there will be repercussions, again(?), for your annoying antics.
Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.
William P Miller - 27 July 2008 04:32 PM
Yes, the Mountain Xpress needs a subsidy so that dual editions can be printed in both English and Spanish. To keep Senator Obama happy.
Posnideus, if you have such affection for socialism, then live it yourself. You don’t even have to move to Cuba. Just make out an austere budget with simple inexpensive foods, clothes from Good Will, etc. Kill your TV, computer, telephone, and any other unnecessary gadget you have. Oh wait, that’s right. You already live under as bridge in a camping situation. Well never mind. At least you can afford to rent time on Malaprop’s house computers to post you pleasant messages here. -:)
TomH, here is the rub between liberal and libertarian. The liberal wants government programs and employees funded no matter what. Raise taxes as high as is necessary. Run retired people out of house and home, as was happening in California before Proposition 13 was passed. Now I don’t have to live in upstate NY to know that high taxation is hurting the working people. Most middle class people cannot pay a mortgage on a $200,000 home AND pay $5000 plus a year in addition for property taxes. I live here in a $200,000 house and my taxes are $1300 a year. These are reasonable property taxes. The American dream has been available to most people willing to work for it… outside the Northeast that is. High taxation keeps people from buying because thay don’t have as much of their hard-earned money. Period.
I am all in favor of teachers getting paid a decent salary. It is my understanding that many teachers in states like California and New York are paid $40,000 to $50,000 a year, with summers off. Am I wrong here? When people become teachers, they know what the pay is. If it isn’t sufficient at the time, opt for a different job. Don’t take the job than complain for years that you are underpaid. Practicality 101.
Taxes and government should always be held as low as possible so that the people can keep the fruits of their own labor, and have as much freedom of choice as possible.
Taxes and government should always be held as low as possible so that the people can keep the fruits of their own labor, and have as much freedom of choice as possible.
Vote for John McCain!
Our National Debt is far higher under Bush than it has been in a long time. In addition, that is debt owed to China, to be payed by our children. McCain has never claimed to change this situation. The Iraq war costs Billions of dollars. How is this an example of limited government again?
Nam vet, please know that Steve only keeps you around for entertainment. you are kind of like his pet monkey.
While the huge national debt is a fact, it is not a fact that China owns all or even most of it. perhaps you’re not saying that but I present some facts for the record: In 2005 foreign nations held about 44% of our national debt.
Japan holds the lions share at 22.76%, China is second are 19.29%. These figures are using the 44% of foreign indebtedness as the base.
Steve, Steve, Steve. What will it take for you to realize that essential government services concerning protection and education are not “socialist”? Check to Wikipedia again, my friend. Socialism refers to “public” (read government) control and ownership of the means of production...and the redistribution of wealth. Where did you go to college? Just curious.
So—let me get this straight—you’re making the claim that the government doesn’t own the schools, and doesn’t redistribute the wealth, and you’re questioning my education? Ouch. I think a basic course in politics and civics would serve you well. I mean, these are pretty fundamental things for you to misunderstand, lil’ buddy.
By the way, are you really 60 and a veteran? I’ve been reading your posts over, and I think you might actually be a 13-year-old with a good gimmick. It’s funny, don’t get me wrong, but I’m not seeing much here that indicates life experiences beyond middle school. Sorry if I’ve outed you.
William P Miller - 26 July 2008 10:01 PM
Socialist countries: the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, the People’s Republic of China, Cuba.
Billy boy, these are communist countries. Anyone who supposedly fought in Vietnam would know this. We were fighting “commies,” remember?
William P Miller - 26 July 2008 10:01 PM
Socialist-lite countries: France (just elected a conservative president), Canada (many Canadians visit the USA for advanced medical care...no lines and superior care). The Netherlands a few years back changed from socialist-nihilist government to conservative.
Some of the countries do have socialist ideals and services, and they regularly elect people with a variety of views, as their governments aren’t stuck in the outdated two-party model we use in the U.S. The rest of this is either propaganda or simply misinformation. Again, I question your actual life experiences here. Have you never been to Canada or France?
William P Miller - 26 July 2008 10:01 PM
Socialism HERE? High taxes and redistribution to those who do not work. Welfare & entitlements. There are a few who really need it. It is a scam business by many to get “free” money from government (read us taxpayers).
Right. You’re an expert on this, I guess. Show some proof that you know anything at all about this subject other than what you read on a blog somewhere.
Get real, Billy boy. You can’t even post without referring to Wikipedia half the time, and you are afraid of answering a single question because you’re afraid of being banned again. Are you or were you the poster known as Nam Vet? You’re a poseur, I think. Own up to it.
William P Miller - 26 July 2008 10:01 PM
Steve, if you want socailsim, keep it private. Give all your disposable income to the “poor”. Do it and walk your talk. Don’t expect me to help your “health” care.
Lil’ Billy, if you want to live in a backward Plutocracy, please keep it private. Give all your money to the private health care providers. Do it, and walk your talk. Don’t expect me to help fund your private health care through my social security taxes when you foster such unAmerican and inhumane sentiments. I expect each and every S.S. check you receive to be returned, uncashed. Or live as a hypocrite. It’s your call, Billy.
