… not familiar with the eastern concept of enlightenment…
I’m familiar with it, just disagree.
I continue the process filling my mind rather than emptying it. I could write several books using the benefits of this philosophy and make a goodly sum of money thereby.
Oh, wait, I already have! ;-)
It is OK Ralph, the Tao is not for everyone, as it has explained for the last 3000 years.
Chapter 41, partial
When the wisest student hears about the Tao.
He follows it without ceasing.
When the average student hears about it
he follows it too, but not all the time.
And when the poor student gets wind of it
he laughs at it like and idiot!
and if he didn’t it wouldn’t be the Tao.....
This is one translation of this Chapter. Here’s another.
Chapter 41, THE UNREALITY OF APPEARANCE
The superior scholar when he considers Tao earnestly practices it; an average scholar listening to Tao sometimes follows it and sometimes loses it; an inferior scholar listening to Tao ridicules it. Were it not thus ridiculed it could not be regarded as Tao.
Therefore the writer says: Those who are most illumined by Tao are the most obscure. Those advanced in Tao are most retiring. Those best guided by Tao are the least prepossessing.
The high in virtue (teh) resemble a lowly valley; the whitest are most likely to be put to shame; the broadest in virtue resemble the inefficient. The most firmly established in virtue resemble the remiss. The simplest chastity resembles the fickle, the greatest square has no corner, the largest vessel is never filled. The greatest sound is void of speech, the greatest form has no shape. Tao is obscure and without name, and yet it is precisely this Tao that alone can give and complete.
I kid! I read The Tao of Physics & The Dancing Wu Li Masters in my youth and became very impressed with Taoism as a philosophy. But then I love the tricksters. I’ve always been more attracted to Loki than Odin. Then during my years in northern California, I was introduced to Taoism as a religion and it didn’t impress me at all. All of the dietary restrictions, the mumbo-jumbo, the rather fundamentalist dictates about how one should live one’s life, seemed like the kind of stuff that would have caused Chuang Tzu to bust a gut laughing after hitting you repeatedly over the head with his staff.
Meditation in its many forms including pranayama can be very satisfying but isn’t trying to force a state of consciousness or mindlessness or emptiness the antithesis of The Tao? Chuang Tzu didn’t give up the bottle, I can’t imagine he’d turn down a real live orgasm either.
To my mind, enlightenment like salvation is a process rather than an event.
Meditation in its many forms including pranayama can be very satisfying but isn’t trying to force a state of consciousness or mindlessness or emptiness the antithesis of The Tao? Chuang Tzu didn’t give up the bottle, I can’t imagine he’d turn down a real live orgasm either.
To my mind, enlightenment like salvation is a process rather than an event.
Then you do not understand what it is to live in bliss 24/7. Orgasm is a sneeze, a transitory event that soon leaves you craving more. Sex is an imprisonment, an unconscious impulse that overwhelms the sensibilities and drives our actions. I have heard, given a natural progression of maturation, by the time one reaches 42, a healthy individual will have gone beyond such impulses. Thing is, due to sexual repression we do not fulfill our desires, maybe ever.
I know, sounds outlandish to people who take Viagra and other aides by the billions well into their seventies and older, perhaps. By the way, I am not talking about forced celibacy which is unnatural thus cannot be maintained with out a very distracting inner struggle. Once you have finished with sex it will fall by the wayside much like any number of childish pursuits.
I’d rather not be finished with it. I like boobs too much.
This is a clear case of arrested development most likely due to inadequate nursing time. It’s called mazophilia and is, according to my sources, incurable.
Then you do not understand what it is to live in bliss 24/7.
That is a point upon which we can agree.
As for sex, I’m a little stunned. I didn’t realize that celibacy was seen as a more virtuous state in Taoism. I’ll never understand why it is that most of the world’s religions tend to denigrate the biological facts of our species. I like sex. I’m fifty and I’ve never taken Viagra in my life and yet I feel that I am enriched by sexual union with my partner.
Anyway, although I’m a heathen, I respect your views and wish you well in your quest for 24/7 bliss while I hopefully can hold on to my repression for awhile longer.
I kid! I read The Tao of Physics & The Dancing Wu Li Masters in my youth and became very impressed with Taoism as a philosophy. But then I love the tricksters. I’ve always been more attracted to Loki than Odin. Then during my years in northern California, I was introduced to Taoism as a religion and it didn’t impress me at all. All of the dietary restrictions, the mumbo-jumbo, the rather fundamentalist dictates about how one should live one’s life, seemed like the kind of stuff that would have caused Chuang Tzu to bust a gut laughing after hitting you repeatedly over the head with his staff.
Meditation in its many forms including pranayama can be very satisfying but isn’t trying to force a state of consciousness or mindlessness or emptiness the antithesis of The Tao? Chuang Tzu didn’t give up the bottle, I can’t imagine he’d turn down a real live orgasm either.
To my mind, enlightenment like salvation is a process rather than an event.
I don’t view Taoism as a religion but a philosophy. I don’t see myself as a sage. I did say it has intrigued me and I seek it’s mystery as you say as a process. To go deeper I will need a teacher. That is where I am in the process. I do find Chuang Tzu delicious food for thought though, munch, munch.
I don not know about Taoism. The origins of this “philosophy” from what I have heard is the mystic Lao Tsu who never intended to create a religion.
As for celibacy being virtuous, couldn’t say not from my sources anyhow. Virtue is not applicable to the quest for enlightenment. What is involved is a movement of one’s energy from the first chakra to the seventh, first being the base (sex) seventh the ultimate. (enlightened) If your energy becomes stuck at the first or at any other level it can not traverse to the peek. Sex, therefore, is viewed as an obstacle.
Some disciplines do demand celibacy but not for virtue’s sake. My source insists on never dropping anything, says you cannot, you can go beyond. The way is through not around. Thus we are encouraged to live our sexuality totally. In fact there is a whole system of tantra that uses sex but not as a release. You are not, in tantric practice, to allow the outer orgasm, women excluded I would guess?
I love kundalini, but again as metaphor rather than fact. At least I’ve never seen my chakras in an x-ray. Also, my take was that in moving up the spinal ladder, to reach the upper levels requires a recognition (acceptance?) of the lower.
When you reach the upper chakras,
you don’t do without the first three;
survival, sex, power.
You don’t destroy
the first three floors of a building
when you get to the fourth.
-Joseph Campbell
I love kundalini, but again as metaphor rather than fact. At least I’ve never seen my chakras in an x-ray. Also, my take was that in moving up the spinal ladder, to reach the upper levels requires a recognition (acceptance?) of the lower.
When you reach the upper chakras,
you don’t do without the first three;
survival, sex, power.
You don’t destroy
the first three floors of a building
when you get to the fourth.
-Joseph Campbell
You may be misinterpreting. My source does not reject sex but the wisdom is, it will naturally drop as the energy rises. Yes, the base is the source. No, you cannot Xray it but nonetheless, the body is essentially pure energy. This is verified by modern physics. energy can be measured and even photographed ( Kirlian Photography) I have experienced it done of my hand. It is also possible for the average individual to see auras. They are not imaginary but can be photographed as well.
The body is a mass of wiring known well to acupuncturists who’s work is about unclogging pathways that have become blocked. I have seen one really incredible sight during an encounter group I assisted with. The participants were blindfolded the entire two day weekend. I observed them doing a strenuous meditation technique that ended in everybody standing like a statue for several minutes. During the standing time a few would begin to fall over. There were two young men, therapy trainees like myself, who were moving among these people suing their hands to pull them erect as if there were actual strings attached. The experience removed all doubt from my mind.
There are techniques of energy manipulation, the best know called therapeutic touch, should be called untouch as the practitioner never does make contact with the body. It has been accepted by branches of the medical community. Wife’s taking a course this weekend and has been told, as a Hospice volunteer they would love her to do this with clients
May seem disconnect but the point is, meditation masters use the bodies energy. Can it actually lead to enlightenment? No, no method, I am told, exists. One can do no more than make oneself available. Being capable of entering a temporary no mind state is part of being prepared. In a word they say God will descend into you when you are ripe. I don’t know. I’m no expert on these things, am just reporting what I ahve heard, not what I know unless I say so.
I have to run, so I’ll have to cogitate on that for a bit. I appreciate your willingness to share your experiences Tom. While I think that I’ll always be a skeptic, I love stories and I love to ponder the imponderable. Thank you TomH & Seeker for engaging with me in the play of ideas. Namaste and I’ll be back!
I’d rather not be finished with it. I like boobs too much.
This is a clear case of arrested development most likely due to inadequate nursing time. It’s called mazophilia and is, according to my sources, incurable.
Thank god. If lovin’ boobs is wrong, then I don’t want to be right.
I have to run, so I’ll have to cogitate on that for a bit. I appreciate your willingness to share your experiences Tom. While I think that I’ll always be a skeptic, I love stories and I love to ponder the imponderable. Thank you TomH & Seeker for engaging with me in the play of ideas. Namaste and I’ll be back!
I’d rather not be finished with it. I like boobs too much.
This is a clear case of arrested development most likely due to inadequate nursing time. It’s called mazophilia and is, according to my sources, incurable.
Thank god. If lovin’ boobs is wrong, then I don’t want to be right.
I also dig butts.
You one of those fellas that picks em up around town? Butts I mean. If not, would you like to volunteer?
